The philosophical underpinnings of the comments in this thread (Stack?) are much like blind folks describing an elephant after feeling one with their hands and listening to it’s trumpeting and movement. None of the descriptions are “right,” but none of them are “wrong” either. They are merely observations of the same animal from one person’s perspective. Yet, each comment writer will defend his personal “elephant” observation, or belief, as “more correct” than the others. But none of the commenters take a position that describes the entire elephant.
The Founders and authors of the Constitution and Bill of Rights were faced with a dilemma when the documents were actually written. Their collective challenge was the absolute requirement to describe the “elephant” as a summary of the many diverse opinions, beliefs and observations of everyone in the “room” (and of the 13 original states). Otherwise, none or only a few of the participants (and states) would agree to sign it and be bound by its terms and conditions.
Further, their intentional designs were to have lives beyond any of the Founder and Signers. Thus, the included prohibitions against tyrannical and religious control or domination. At the same time, however, the intentional designs relied on the decisions and actions of later generations of people which could result in unintended consequences like the ones with Speaker Mike Johnson and the MAGA tyrant TFG.
With religion, the consensus was not to favor one but to protect the rights of each person and all persons living in America under the auspices of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, as amended from time to time, to pursue a religion, or any, or not, of that persons own choosing.
For tyrants and tyrannical factions, the implicit belief was that the People’s will and the independence of the judiciary would be self correcting and remove those threats.
But, as we now know, the sheer size of the anti-Constitutional religious and tyrannical factions bolstered by the relatively recent corporate personage and their political bribery schemes, along with the State’s gerrymandering actions to restrain voting rights for the specific purpose of electing a Christian infected GOP, are gelding the Constitution and Bill of Rights and excluding an effective voice of The People.
Had that consensus building effort not happened, my opinion is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights would look more like the Taliban’s version of religion than not. The versions proposed by Speaker Johnson, the TFG/MAGA faction, and corporate America are accomplishing the same thing.
Its interesting that the SCOTUS Christian majority is working to create a highly autocratic presidency. CS Lewis argues that democracy is the best form of governance. As we are all fallen and imperfect, democracy provides checks and balances against bad motives. How is creating an autocratic presidency and putting a malicious narcissist in the office going to result in a Christian culture?
The sad part is the particular strain of Catholicism that we see in the Supreme Court is NOT the only one. It is the intolerant strain that hates Pope Francis because he’s too nice. So many Catholics don’t know about or remember Liberation Theology and its emphasis on lifting up the poor and bringing about social justice. The Jesuits (including him) do… That’s why so many Catholics turned mean when Francis was selected (even though the churches teaching is that the Holy Spirit is moving within the whole process of selection). Kind of like how so many people turned mean when Obama won the presidency. It’s one thing to preach love and tolerance. It’s an entirely different thing when leadership openly advocates it 🙃
And then there’s some of us who got here in the 1600s … driven by money, war, slavery, prison, indentured servitude… We still keep the family history and smack around some of our inbred cousins who are straight up lying. Christianity my ass.
"Merciful Providence" and "Divine Good" sound like Academic terms, and reflect a Roman take on divination and statecraft would have been popular with an Academic like Cicero, who wrote the world's first constitution (which would not be discovered until the 19th century because St. Augustine wrote his City of God over it - once again Christians obscuring Deist legacies).
Unlike popular Greek and Roman religions, during the Golden Age of Greece they also discovered Reason. In Rome, being in government was considered a sacred duty, meant be the rule of the wise or "provident," imbued with the ability to divine God's will (statecraft, the art and science of government).
As universal ideals, it's not surprising to see future generations rediscover them after such dark ages. It is sad to see them abandon them. Thank you for shedding light with your beautiful essay.
Religions and governments have created huge and powerful propaganda machines to influence everything you think. They have practically dictated what's in your history books. If you don't think so, check with any Native American tribe or any African American (Bass Reeves of The Lawman was a black guy, not the white Lone Ranger who was based upon Bass Reeves, appearlywith the virtually non-verbal Tonto). This article, based on the most esteemed academic research of the last 50 years, efforts to correct the lies of people like Mike Johnson, not to mention the efforts of mainstream America in the last 250 years to lie about who actually created your Constitution and what they believed. And I appreciate your acknowledging that you, as we all do, will always see things through our own lenses, but some lenses are a damned sight cleaner than others!! And your attempt to declare, by fiat, what is an isn't injury ignore that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust, that 12.5 million Africans were kidnapped and force-labored for the rest of their lives by whites who, on a good day, declared them just 60% human, the women who do 85% of the world's work and own just 3% of its wealth, and fact that King Leopold II had his goons in the Congo amputate hands and feet of Africans who held back some food for themselves rather than WASTE BULLETS on people he considered livestock. No sale, buddy. No sale.
Oh, yeah! Thomas Paine did not mince words!!! He spent almost a year in Paris with the Madisons, even living in their house at one point, in 1795, I think. There is a marvelous letter at the National Archives written by Paine that is a delight. It's here: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-16-02-0053
The problem for THEM was that religion had already ingratiated itself into the LEGAL apparatus of many of the 13 colonies. There was an IMMENSE, LONG, TESTY, LEGALLY THORNY DISAGREEMENT between James Madison and Patrick Henry, then governor of Virginia, about the establishment of Christianity as the state religion of Virginia. It went on for several years, and essentially, Madison outmanouvered Patrick Henry and prevented a religious state from developing in the richest of the 13 Colonies. Madison, along with Thomas Paine--the Thomas Wolfe of his day--was truly dedicated to REVERSING the establishment of religion on a Constitutional level and hoped to create a secular state that would not be subject to exactly what you're talking about--the abuses to which multiple religions have been and are now subject. I am a mythologist, and in myth, there are four functions: metaphysical, cosmological (we'd call it the science of the natural world but often described previously as the capricious antics and wraths of gods!), the social, and the psychological. What we absolutely know about how ancient peoples operated is that they HARD-WIRED to see the divine in everything. Their perception of cosmic energies is that they were emanate, that they suffused everything. The metaphysical is, therefore, the original organizing influence in the human psyche for at least (some say) 300,000 years. The metaphysical then creates the other three. This is why it's so hard to get extracted from it. Descartes, who had the worst nightmares of anybody I've ever heard of and tried not to sleep (!!!! like that would work???) leaned into the "objective" to try to bring himself out of insanity. He came up with a lot of good stuff. And he went too far, causing big problems. But this "Flight to Objectivity" really flew into the face of millennia of psychological and social orientation and beliefs about Nature, and all of it came from the fact that people gazed into the stars and wondered who they were. Meanwhile, cognitive science has established that we are "hard-wired" for religion. What Madison accomplished -- aided by the political posturing of Jefferson and Franklin -- was to hold onto the honor of religion (oh, he was good with words on this one!) while ripping from its cold, white knuckles the power it had for epochs held as its own, and at quite the profit!!! ... I understand what you're saying. Somebody does need to provide "a more complete historical back story is needed. Especially addressing how religions & governments of all kinds have distorted & manipulated the truth to control people." That's going to need to be you. Because I'm doing this and running an academic publishing company and working on two books of my own and a screenplay. So, have it at it, hon! It would be a contribution for sure, and I will contribute to your security fund to buy you a good ninja. ... Thanks for writing. Fun to talk to you. .... P.S. Cool book: https://www.amazon.com/Flight-Objectivity-Cartesianism-Culture-Philosophy/dp/0887064116/ref=sr_1_1?crid=38VPHU1FACGQ6&keywords=flight+to+objectivity&qid=1701235129&sprefix=flight+to+objectivity%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-1 ... It's been in print for at least 30 years and gets passed around to each other by scholars who rave about it.
The philosophical underpinnings of the comments in this thread (Stack?) are much like blind folks describing an elephant after feeling one with their hands and listening to it’s trumpeting and movement. None of the descriptions are “right,” but none of them are “wrong” either. They are merely observations of the same animal from one person’s perspective. Yet, each comment writer will defend his personal “elephant” observation, or belief, as “more correct” than the others. But none of the commenters take a position that describes the entire elephant.
The Founders and authors of the Constitution and Bill of Rights were faced with a dilemma when the documents were actually written. Their collective challenge was the absolute requirement to describe the “elephant” as a summary of the many diverse opinions, beliefs and observations of everyone in the “room” (and of the 13 original states). Otherwise, none or only a few of the participants (and states) would agree to sign it and be bound by its terms and conditions.
Further, their intentional designs were to have lives beyond any of the Founder and Signers. Thus, the included prohibitions against tyrannical and religious control or domination. At the same time, however, the intentional designs relied on the decisions and actions of later generations of people which could result in unintended consequences like the ones with Speaker Mike Johnson and the MAGA tyrant TFG.
With religion, the consensus was not to favor one but to protect the rights of each person and all persons living in America under the auspices of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, as amended from time to time, to pursue a religion, or any, or not, of that persons own choosing.
For tyrants and tyrannical factions, the implicit belief was that the People’s will and the independence of the judiciary would be self correcting and remove those threats.
But, as we now know, the sheer size of the anti-Constitutional religious and tyrannical factions bolstered by the relatively recent corporate personage and their political bribery schemes, along with the State’s gerrymandering actions to restrain voting rights for the specific purpose of electing a Christian infected GOP, are gelding the Constitution and Bill of Rights and excluding an effective voice of The People.
Had that consensus building effort not happened, my opinion is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights would look more like the Taliban’s version of religion than not. The versions proposed by Speaker Johnson, the TFG/MAGA faction, and corporate America are accomplishing the same thing.
The separation of church and state. I guess the new speaker is unfamiliar with that term. 🙄
And I stand with you.
Thank you!!
Its interesting that the SCOTUS Christian majority is working to create a highly autocratic presidency. CS Lewis argues that democracy is the best form of governance. As we are all fallen and imperfect, democracy provides checks and balances against bad motives. How is creating an autocratic presidency and putting a malicious narcissist in the office going to result in a Christian culture?
The sad part is the particular strain of Catholicism that we see in the Supreme Court is NOT the only one. It is the intolerant strain that hates Pope Francis because he’s too nice. So many Catholics don’t know about or remember Liberation Theology and its emphasis on lifting up the poor and bringing about social justice. The Jesuits (including him) do… That’s why so many Catholics turned mean when Francis was selected (even though the churches teaching is that the Holy Spirit is moving within the whole process of selection). Kind of like how so many people turned mean when Obama won the presidency. It’s one thing to preach love and tolerance. It’s an entirely different thing when leadership openly advocates it 🙃
Brilliant in content and timing. So glad I signed up.
Interesting political based viewpoint, but there is so much evidence contrary to this perspective; do your own due diligence.
And then there’s some of us who got here in the 1600s … driven by money, war, slavery, prison, indentured servitude… We still keep the family history and smack around some of our inbred cousins who are straight up lying. Christianity my ass.
Brilliant piece. 100%💙🇺🇸💙
This is great, plus gives great clarity.
“Crusades 2025”
"Merciful Providence" and "Divine Good" sound like Academic terms, and reflect a Roman take on divination and statecraft would have been popular with an Academic like Cicero, who wrote the world's first constitution (which would not be discovered until the 19th century because St. Augustine wrote his City of God over it - once again Christians obscuring Deist legacies).
Unlike popular Greek and Roman religions, during the Golden Age of Greece they also discovered Reason. In Rome, being in government was considered a sacred duty, meant be the rule of the wise or "provident," imbued with the ability to divine God's will (statecraft, the art and science of government).
As universal ideals, it's not surprising to see future generations rediscover them after such dark ages. It is sad to see them abandon them. Thank you for shedding light with your beautiful essay.
Together we stand ...
Religions and governments have created huge and powerful propaganda machines to influence everything you think. They have practically dictated what's in your history books. If you don't think so, check with any Native American tribe or any African American (Bass Reeves of The Lawman was a black guy, not the white Lone Ranger who was based upon Bass Reeves, appearlywith the virtually non-verbal Tonto). This article, based on the most esteemed academic research of the last 50 years, efforts to correct the lies of people like Mike Johnson, not to mention the efforts of mainstream America in the last 250 years to lie about who actually created your Constitution and what they believed. And I appreciate your acknowledging that you, as we all do, will always see things through our own lenses, but some lenses are a damned sight cleaner than others!! And your attempt to declare, by fiat, what is an isn't injury ignore that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust, that 12.5 million Africans were kidnapped and force-labored for the rest of their lives by whites who, on a good day, declared them just 60% human, the women who do 85% of the world's work and own just 3% of its wealth, and fact that King Leopold II had his goons in the Congo amputate hands and feet of Africans who held back some food for themselves rather than WASTE BULLETS on people he considered livestock. No sale, buddy. No sale.
Oh, yeah! Thomas Paine did not mince words!!! He spent almost a year in Paris with the Madisons, even living in their house at one point, in 1795, I think. There is a marvelous letter at the National Archives written by Paine that is a delight. It's here: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-16-02-0053
Do stick around. [s]
The problem for THEM was that religion had already ingratiated itself into the LEGAL apparatus of many of the 13 colonies. There was an IMMENSE, LONG, TESTY, LEGALLY THORNY DISAGREEMENT between James Madison and Patrick Henry, then governor of Virginia, about the establishment of Christianity as the state religion of Virginia. It went on for several years, and essentially, Madison outmanouvered Patrick Henry and prevented a religious state from developing in the richest of the 13 Colonies. Madison, along with Thomas Paine--the Thomas Wolfe of his day--was truly dedicated to REVERSING the establishment of religion on a Constitutional level and hoped to create a secular state that would not be subject to exactly what you're talking about--the abuses to which multiple religions have been and are now subject. I am a mythologist, and in myth, there are four functions: metaphysical, cosmological (we'd call it the science of the natural world but often described previously as the capricious antics and wraths of gods!), the social, and the psychological. What we absolutely know about how ancient peoples operated is that they HARD-WIRED to see the divine in everything. Their perception of cosmic energies is that they were emanate, that they suffused everything. The metaphysical is, therefore, the original organizing influence in the human psyche for at least (some say) 300,000 years. The metaphysical then creates the other three. This is why it's so hard to get extracted from it. Descartes, who had the worst nightmares of anybody I've ever heard of and tried not to sleep (!!!! like that would work???) leaned into the "objective" to try to bring himself out of insanity. He came up with a lot of good stuff. And he went too far, causing big problems. But this "Flight to Objectivity" really flew into the face of millennia of psychological and social orientation and beliefs about Nature, and all of it came from the fact that people gazed into the stars and wondered who they were. Meanwhile, cognitive science has established that we are "hard-wired" for religion. What Madison accomplished -- aided by the political posturing of Jefferson and Franklin -- was to hold onto the honor of religion (oh, he was good with words on this one!) while ripping from its cold, white knuckles the power it had for epochs held as its own, and at quite the profit!!! ... I understand what you're saying. Somebody does need to provide "a more complete historical back story is needed. Especially addressing how religions & governments of all kinds have distorted & manipulated the truth to control people." That's going to need to be you. Because I'm doing this and running an academic publishing company and working on two books of my own and a screenplay. So, have it at it, hon! It would be a contribution for sure, and I will contribute to your security fund to buy you a good ninja. ... Thanks for writing. Fun to talk to you. .... P.S. Cool book: https://www.amazon.com/Flight-Objectivity-Cartesianism-Culture-Philosophy/dp/0887064116/ref=sr_1_1?crid=38VPHU1FACGQ6&keywords=flight+to+objectivity&qid=1701235129&sprefix=flight+to+objectivity%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-1 ... It's been in print for at least 30 years and gets passed around to each other by scholars who rave about it.